Bummer.....

[ouchyk]

Looks like another possiblity has fallen by the way-side...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/23/health/23arthritis.html?ex=1141362000&en=ab8356177cca946d&ei=5070&emc=eta1

Happy Reading,
Karen

[alli]

Karen,
I read that article this morning . Almost choked on my coffee when I read "Americans spent an estimated $ 734 million on glucosamine and chondroitin in 2004".

[hiker]

Fortunately, to this point anyway, I do not have arthritis, however let me tell you what experience I do have with glucosamine.

I am an avid hiker, putting 100+ miles per year on the trails. I have a faithful hiking partner, a 7-1/2 yr old Siberian Huskey who, two years ago, began showing signs of arthritis in his fore- and rear- joints. It is bad enough that even going down the 4 steps of our home to do "his thing" in the yard was causing pain.

I picked up a supplement at the local pet store that is a composition of glucosamine and shark cartiledge, this he gets once per day (pill). He runs up and down the steps, shows no signs of any pain on hikes (sometimes putting in 10+ miles/day). But, if he goes without the pill for more than two days he is back to showing pain.

Now, a dog doesn't understand the purpose of a pill and so "placebo" has no meaning, it's just a treat as far as he is concerned. He simply shows when he is in pain and what he isn't.

Add to this how many times we hear about coffee being good or bad (generally, not with re. to p), eggs, milk, etc. Not to mention the recent study about cholesterol. Why believe "scientific research" when they can't agree on results. Try it, if it works great, if it doesn't move on.

Just my thoughts, no scientific research involved. :D

mike

[makeitgoaway]

I'm just thinking out loud, but maybe the reason there doesn't seem to be too many studies with CAM supplements is that the manufacturers don't want the true effectiveness revealed. $734 million a year on a product that doesn't work sure sounds like a nice racquet to me.

[jennab711]

I think the same determination can be make about ANYTHING we take. FDA or no FDA. The fact is that people are far more sick then they have ever been over the past 100 years or so. In MY OPINION, it is the drugs/doctors that are the real cause of this. There are soooo many medications out there, and I do not know too many people who do not take something for something. Granted, we eat bad in 2006. But in say 1946, fat intake was probably at an all time high. The grease gramma use to cook in, Everthing would soak in it. Yhe things my mom tells me her mother would cook, nasty. I do not think we are any better off with medical technology than we were 100 years ago when it comes to being healthy...Just my 2 cents.....

[Dulane]

I saw a report yesterday on the news here in Seattle where they interviewed 2 people with osteo arthritis. They both used glucosamine and chondroitin.

The lady with the worst case said it worked well for her. The other lady said it didn't help her. The report that they cited on the news said that those with the more debilitating involvement showed more improvement.

I've also read that if you were an athlete or a jogger, and had worn out your joints to some degree...it was far more likely to help you...than if your pain was caused by disease.

I've also heard that owners of animals using it have reported improvement.

I'd rather try it on them than watch them in pain, wouldn't you?

I KNOW that turmeric has helped me, or more specifically curcumin. And there is a product called Lubriflex that Costco sells...I noticed results from that within an hour...it contains herbs and seems to be a fairly natural product.

There are still good alternatives to pain meds.
:)

[ouchyk]

Yeah, like eggs, one week they are bad for you the next thier not.

I was just surprised to see such a large scale study with negative results after reading promising results especially for osteo.

The most interesting read for me was how much of it or how little of it is actually absorbed into the bloodstream.

Hiker, I love huskies. Glad it helped him. Big pats!

Karen

[grannyfranny]

I know glucosamine and chondroitin helped me. I started getting Osteo just when it came out. My doc told me to try it because it might help and it wouldn't hurt.
I had 3 fingers swell up in one week. I have it in my hip, knee, neck, feet and 6 fingers. I only had it in the three fingers when I started taking glucosamine and chondroitin. I took it for 3 months and did not have anymore joints to get it. Then I stopped taking it. Within 3 weeks, 3 more fingers flared. I started taking it again and have not had any more joints to be affected. I have not stopped it again. My pain has lessened, I do not need a pain reliever anymore. Sometimes my neck hurts a little if I sleep wrong.

I don't remember when it came out,,,,,1988--89????? My neck was so painful that I took Vioxx when it came out. This is not something that you can take once in a while. You have to take it continously.

If you could compare me to my Mother and Grandmother when they were my age,,,,,you would see an amazing difference.

[wackydog]

I think the same determination can be make about ANYTHING we take. FDA or no FDA. The fact is that people are far more sick then they have ever been over the past 100 years or so.

It's good to remember that it was highly unusual for people to live to be 60, 70, not to mention 80 or 90 years old, until the late 1940's, 50's or so. Now, retirement planning suggests you plan on living until at least 80. Part of the reason we have so many ailments, is that we're living longer. My grandmother was just 6 years older than me, when she died.

Scientific studies can be flawed, and have been in the past. There were actually studies that found no ill effects from smoking published!! (there probably will be again in the future - this stuff has trends & fashions like everything else) Statistics, numbers and studies can be biased or flawed and the conclusions are written by people who are, after all, humans. They can be wrong.

Like Granny & Hiker's buddy, I've found this to be a useful supplement. I didn't stop eating bacon when they said it was bad for you, either! And truth is - (I'm on a very low salt diet) I can have 3 pieces of bacon for less total salt than I can of Turkey bacon (1 slice only - more salt).

[hiker]

It's good to remember that it was highly unusual for people to live to be 60, 70, not to mention 80 or 90 years old, until the late 1940's, 50's or so. Now, retirement planning suggests you plan on living until at least 80. Part of the reason we have so many ailments, is that we're living longer. My grandmother was just 6 years older than me, when she died.

Nothing personal, but I hate it when those stats are given. The "average age" is highly skewed because 1 in 3 people (from the 1700's) died in childbirth or within the first year. Before that it was close to 1 in 2.5. If you take away the childhood deaths, and the high number of military fatalities, it wasn't that uncommon to live into your 60's -- just look at our "founding fathers" and others who could be considered "famous" enough to have records still around.

[hypothenar]

Ehhhhh - even if it is just a placebo effect, I'm willing to spend the 5 bucks a month it costs me to negate the pain I've had off and on in my right knee for the past 30+ years. When I first mentioned the pain to a health service doctor, as a sophomore in college, I was told, "Hey, buck up - you are getting older, you know!" Thanks...

Anyway, I stock up on the stuff when it's 2 for 1 at the grocery store. Started taking it around 5 years ago. Used to only use 1 a day, am up to two a day now - oh no - could I be an addict!?! My 22 year old daughter uses it sporadically (sp?) for her Chron's disease hip pain. When we mentioned it to her pediatric gastroenterologist a number of years ago, his attitude was, if it works, go for it; probably better for her than the Celebrex.

The creeepy thing about it though, is that my husband discovered that they use all kinds of fun by-products to make it - you know - the good stuff, like beef (possibly pork, as well?) tracheas... Yum yum!

[condor]

OuchyK;

I have some reading material for you to follow up on, if you haven't already found this.

It is a book on the Arachidonic Acid Cascade-the chemical messengers of inflammation and the reversal of them.
You will like this.

Inflammation Nation by Floyd H. Chilton

1st. link is the book listing, 2nd. link is the table of contents.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743269640/qid=1141425540/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-0767064-6611346?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0743269640/ref=sib_dp_top_toc/102-0767064-6611346?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00D#reader-link


Steve

[ouchyk]

Condor,

Thanks, I have heard about the book and looked into it. It's been around for quite a while.

Karen :)

[shrinkyvero]

Karen,

I think the book was published in 2005.. Only 2 years, I think.

[ouchyk]

ummm yeah...thanks. 2 years not anything new...

I have this terrible habit of getting information from my rheumatologist whose been around for a while and has seen what works and what doesn't...diet isn't one of the treatments he's seen work...a healthy diet is always warranted tho.

Karen

[Patchsigns]

Karen...!!!

Seems that I haven't been on here in like forever...!!

I'm still experiencing Miraculous healing of sorts... I don't like to analyze it or over-analyze it... but... formal paperwork WAS submitted in Philadelphia for a "favor/miracle".

It's been 10 months.

10 months of blessings. Of being blessed.

Know this... It must be 3 years now, at least, of me praying every day for you and others to have this insidious disease eradicated from our lives.

I know the pain and suffering that you have endured. All of you. I will NEVER forget THAT!!

I pray that whatever methodology you may use, will benefit you of your pain... whether it be a minute less of suffering, an hour less of suffering, a day, a week, a month or a lifetime...

Bless you always. You are all in my thoughts and in my prayers...

Joe

[ouchyk]

Joe,

Bless your sweet kind heart, I still wear the medal...with exception of that brief period of time that it was " lost " but never really " gone "......I can still remember the joy of finding it and the sentiment!

Stay well dear friend!
xo
Karen

[RichJ]

hi joe,
it's great to see you again. i miss seeing you post. i hope all is great my friend

have a good night all

richard

[Patchsigns]

Hey Rich...!!

The folks up here in Fair Lawn, New Jersey know exactly what I had been going through.

I was asked to be a guest speaker at a special dinner regarding "Miracles and Blessed John of Vercelli" in Garfield.

And... a catechist asked me to speak about this in front of a class of 8th graders...

In any event... at least there is an increased awareness about this horrible disease...

I mean... How glorious it is to walk...!!

But... honestly... You should see a Miracle dance...!!!

I truly believe there is hope for all of us. And not just because of deep Faith... and beliefs in Miracles... I think that someday soon there'll be a cure for PA.

We need one and we need one now!!

Continue pressing your representatives in Congress about increased funding for P and PA. Have a great relationship with your dermatologist and your rheumatologist... and do by all means... cautiously experiment with alternative treatments... and the key word is "Cautiously".

Doing what I did is extremely dangerous... deadly... and yes... stupid.

September will come and I'll crack a year... God Willing....!!

For all of us sufferers, whether newly diagnosed or like me... suffered with P for almost 30 years and PA for 7... the pain, the embarassment, the shame we feel, the helplessness, the hopelessness... is all real, too.

My heart goes out to each and everyone of you...

For me... I still don't consider myself cured... You want to know what helped me so much...? A saying. Maybe you have one, too that just gets you through the day... For me... it was this...

"God never gives us a problem or a challenge, unless there is a Blessing attached to it."

Sometimes the real trick is finding the blessing...

Love ya all. Hang in there...!!!

Blessings,
Joe