Flax / Fish Oil Question

[Paco386]

I tried looking up information about this on my own and I guess I just got information overload :p So, here's hoping for a straight answer ...

I was wondering whether it was ok (i.e., safe) to take fish oil and flax oil at the same time? I have started to take one 1000mg fish oil capsule and two 1000mg flax oil caps, each 3x/day @ meals. Too early to see much benefits right now, but some lesions do seem less red.

THANKS! :)

[nomobties]

Dont go overboard. You may develope the likelyhood for hemmoragic stroke. You may also one day get a papercut and bleed, bleed, bleed, most especially if you keep levels of saturated fats to a minimum.

If your concern is taking in enough quality Omega 3's then stick with Fish oil. There is more research in that (for overall health) than in Flaxseed. Google fish oil and pay attention only to scholarly journal section. Flaxseed however is interesting. In my readings its the ligans in flaxseed oils that have the most profound effect on the psoriatics (do your research, will the omega 3's and 6's in flaxseed harm you? Is there a balance thats right for you alone?)

Remember not to compromise your overall health. Which brings me to another topic? Where did you get the numbers? Why so much? Why so little? Are you taking enough? There is a good book, easily readable, I recommend called "The Antiinflamation Zone" by Barry Sears. He does not talk about psoriasis (one line actually) but he does tout fish oil as a way of supplementing an overall healthy diet. (And no, although the guy does sell fish oil, he does not mention his brand in the book)

The book addresses the issue of how much is enough and how to get tested for it. You don't want to die from a paper cut (exageration just to make a point).

Also there are posts ad nauseum on the subject of fish oils and flaxseed oils and omega 3's here. Look into it my friend.

[GitOverIt]

I found a very good description of the difference...I have read that some people just can not convert the flax oil to the forms it needs....I use CLO (cod liver oil)( Carlson's lemon flavored) and take borage or grapeseed oil for the healthy omega 6's


http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/flaxoil.htm#difference
What is the difference between fish oil and flaxseed oil?
Both fish and flax are good sources of omega-3's, and for people who will not consume fish for any reason, flax will do. Flaxseed oil is also less expensive, which can be an important consideration as well. The main difference is that flaxseed oil contains only alpha- linoleic acid (ALA), which is the parent compound from which other omega-3 fatty acids are derived. This leaves it to your body to do the conversion to the other forms it needs, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The problem is that the conversion is not always that efficient, and the body often uses the ALA for extra energy, leaving less for conversion to the other types. Fish oil, on the other hand, contains the other forms and delivers them directly to your body with no conversion necessary. Whatever form you decide to take, nutritionists recommend to back it up with an extra 400 IU of vitamin E (as mixed tocopherols) to prevent the fatty acids from breaking down too rapidly in your body.

[1stloved]

Sally,

How much CLO and vitamin E do you take each day?
Sally

[Paco386]

Dont go overboard. You may develope the likelyhood for hemmoragic stroke ... Look into it my friend.

Thanks for the info nomobties ... I'll certainly be careful. I'll just stick to the fish oil for now .. 1000mg tab 3x a day (as per the container's directions). My skin is looking better however in general, aside from the P. Must also be the Vitamin E I also take and the water I drink.

[abbyroad]

hola Paco..( :) that's my dog's name..paco...he's my cute little boy)

careful of overdoing as Mario (nomobties) said...if you feel the need to take the additional supplement of flaxseed then slowly introduce it to your system one at a time....and it doesn't hurt to let your derm in on what supps you are taking...
I also just take a fish oil (cod liver) and also take borage oil, and evening primrose oil daily, along with grapeseed oil. Sally has been a tremendous help for me as far as supplements, AE and SE teas.... ;)
Everyone is different with their p so you must find our own combo of supps that are comfortable for you....good luck!

[GitOverIt]

Thank you Abby...you are too kind :p (we belong to a mutual admiration society)

I would avoid the flax since you can figure you lack the enzyme unless tested!
here is a good article that Drea posted that gives much info!

http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21299

but remember the worse of the worse are the trans fatty acids

they cause inflammation!

http://www.healthcastle.com/trans.shtml

[cybermania]

Hi Paco,

Information on fish oil studies can be obtained right from this website.
http://www.psoriasis.org/treatment/psoriasis/diet/supplements.php
There seems to be some success using this type of treatment. In the study, the test group took 4500mg of fish oil per day without any side affects. I'm currently taking 6000mg fish oil or 3000mg EPA per day with no problems AND fish oil DOES NOT contain any saturated fat or monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fat, as you probably already know from reading the label, so no need to be concerned about too much saturated fat. Additionally, I'm taking 5200mg of primrose oil and I've had no negative effect from combining the two. I've been working on this therapy for about a week and I've had some positive results. My test patch seems to be lessening and overall I seem less red and no new lesions have popped up. Plus, my itching seems more tolerable. I've since added milk thistle, tumeric, and slippery elm and I don't have any problems taking any of the supplements, in fact I feel better, overall, and my appetite has lessened and I have more energy. Initally, I gained about 10-15 lbs from the onset of the disease. Prior to that, I was appropriate wt/ht ratio (5'5" 125lbs) and my psoriasis didn't come on as a result of obesity, as I see many Americans suffering from psoriasis along with being overweight. My psoriasis is a result of anti-malarial medicine. I try to maintain a healthy diet, plus exercise, which I think is a key to fighting this disease. GOOD LUCK!! Here's the info from this site:
ish oil
Dietary supplementation with fish oil is said to have a variety of favorable effects on both the cardiovascular and immune systems in laboratory animals. Psoriasis is an immune-mediated disease, so it follows that fish oil—if it alters immune reactivity—could improve psoriasis. Multiple studies have been conducted in humans, with mixed results.
Max-EPA fish oil supplement has been used in studies and has shown mild to moderate improvement in people's psoriasis. It is sold over the counter in health food stores in capsules.

A study published in The Lancet in 1988 showed psoriasis patients who took 10 fish oil capsules daily for eight weeks had "significant lessening" of itching, redness and scaling. Patients in the placebo group who took 10 olive oil capsules saw no improvement. The patients were advised not to change their regular diet.

Another study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1993 showed that dietary supplementation with fish oil was no better than dietary supplementation with corn oil. Studies reported in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology in September 1993 suggest that fish oil supplementation may help patients with psoriasis who are receiving long-term retinoid treatment by reducing their risk of atherosclerosis, a disease that “clogs” the arteries with fatty plaques. Another study suggested fish oil may prevent kidney damage in patients taking cyclosporine, an immune-suppressing medication used to prevent organ transplant rejection and treat moderate to severe psoriasis.

Studies reported in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology in September 1993 suggest that fish oil supplementation may help patients with psoriasis who are receiving long-term retinoid treatment by reducing their risk of atherosclerosis, a disease that "clogs" the arteries with fatty plaques. Another study suggested fish oil may prevent kidney damage in patients taking cyclosporine, an immune-suppressing medication used to prevent organ transplant rejection and treat moderate to severe psoriasis.

However, increased ingestion of fish oil, particularly of cod liver oil, may lead to excess levels of vitamins A and D. Fish oils also can inhibit the blood from clotting, although this potential side effect is not dangerous in most circumstances.

Because of the high doses of fish oil used in these experiments, it must be considered a medication and not a mere dietary supplement. If you want to try fish oil, consult with your health-care provider.

[fittingit]

Cybermania.......u mentioned a test patch. R u putting primrose oil on it or just what r u putting on it to test. I did not quite understand this.
Thanks

[Paco386]

GitOverIt, abbyroad, cybermania: THANKS for all your insights and information! I feel better educated about this now. :)

[GitOverIt]

Remember the rule of thumb: plain fish oil in the summer....and in the winter when you are not getting Vitamin D from the sun switch to Cod Liver Oil...find a good brand without mercury..Carlson brand or any Norwegian CLO!

[Allie]

I tried looking up information about this on my own and I guess I just got information overload :p So, here's hoping for a straight answer ...

I was wondering whether it was ok (i.e., safe) to take fish oil and flax oil at the same time? I have started to take one 1000mg fish oil capsule and two 1000mg flax oil caps, each 3x/day @ meals. Too early to see much benefits right now, but some lesions do seem less red.

THANKS! :)
NO!!!! I have recently read several books on alt. therapy (as I am ttc) and I read specifically -

"Do not ever take Flax Seed & Fish Oil together. They are both anti-coagulants and can cause you to hemorrhage. If you are taking a prescription blood thinner, such as coumdin, DO NOT take either of these without first talking with your Dr."

The book I am referencing is this one sponsored by the Reader’s Digest…..

CUT YOUR CHOLESTEROL: Lose 30 points In 12 Weeks by David Katz & Debra Gordon

[cybermania]

Cybermania.......u mentioned a test patch. R u putting primrose oil on it or just what r u putting on it to test. I did not quite understand this.
Thanks
Yes, I'm putting primrose directly on the test patch. Also, I cut open a few capsules and put them directly in my bath water, along with Dead Sea salts. Primrose contains gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) or omega 6, which seems to be lacking in people with psoriasis. GLA can be absorbed through the skin. I read several studies on this fact. Flaxseed oil contains alpha-linolenic acid. I haven't read any studies on people with psoriasis and alpha-linolenic acid. Fish oil contains EPA, which is also suppose to help people with psoriasis. The therapy seems to be helping. I don't have any new spots and my itching is down, considerably. When I do itch, it doesn't produce the red, flaring bumps. I still have the test patch, but it is diminishing, as well as all the other spots. I'm still red all over, but it's not as intense and my skin feels better, smoother. Prior to starting the therapy, I had spots everywhere from the neck down, but even a few on my face, hands, and feet, which is unusual for people with Guttate. Today, I'm going to make a paste with turmeric and put that on the test patch. I believe GetOverIt mentioned this therapy. I can't wait to clear up!!

[cybermania]

The book I am referencing is this one sponsored by the Reader’s Digest…..

I'm familiar with Reader's Digest. It's filled, page after page, with advertisements for drug companies. It's a platform for pharmeceutical companies to push their wares. Of course, they're not going to promote alternatives in any logical way. It's very hard to "overtake" supplements. I'm doubling up with no problems. Taking the recommended daily dosage of supplements will not harm you, at all. It's not a drug with adverse side affects. It's easy, get some exercise and drink lots of water. Everything will flush right through and the valuable components will be absorbed by the body.

[GitOverIt]

Hi cyber....I have several tricks up my sleeve on mixing and adding for P stuff! :D

here are a couple to try if you'd like!

1. mix Apricot oil and GSE (grapeFRUIT seed extract)
I used about 2 ounces of Apricot oil and 20 drops of GSE and shook!
both are found at health store! I get mine at the Vitamin shoppe as they carry both!

the first informs about GSE...

the scond educates about GSE....

http://www.jerseyhealth.freeservers.com/grapefruit_seed_extract.htm

http://www.pureliquidgold.com/


2. for inverse P (hot spots anywhere on or around body creases)
Mix 1 tube of Lamisil cream and equal amount of Hydrocortisone (1%)
cream in a clean covered container....Costco (no I don't have stock in the
company ....wish I did) has a double set in a box....cheaper than
drugstores! this is soothing and has for me removed the inverse in some
areas in a short time....I've only been using this for about a week....
This is Dr. Heng's treatment for removing an aggravating condition :p

Hey ya'll!!! let me know how it goes if you try it! :D

p.s. on the GSE I also started taking this every morning (20 drops) with a glass of juice and acai berry juice! It's my eyeopener for the day! ;)

[Allie]

I'm familiar with Reader's Digest. It's filled, page after page, with advertisements for drug companies. It's a platform for pharmeceutical companies to push their wares. Of course, they're not going to promote alternatives in any logical way. It's very hard to "overtake" supplements. I'm doubling up with no problems. Taking the recommended daily dosage of supplements will not harm you, at all. It's not a drug with adverse side affects. It's easy, get some exercise and drink lots of water. Everything will flush right through and the valuable components will be absorbed by the body.
I’m sorry, you are making references to a magazine I have not read – ever. (In all honesty, I do believe, my Grandmother used to read it) The book I am referencing is in the ALTERNATIVE health section at my local Borders store.

I find it very offensive to have a book I read to learn about alternative therapy, A BOOK BASED ON LOWERING YOUR CHOLESTEROL THROUGH DIET & EXERCISE & NATURAL SUPPLEMENTS not drugs is being criticized simple because you don’t agree with who sponsored it.

I believe my Vitamin’s for Dummies book also said the same thing, but I am sure you believe this to be written by a company sponsoring company as well too, right?

It is dangerous to take both of these together, and I feel it is important to tell someone who asks the TRUTH and keep us all safe.

I never said they were dangerous independently, what I said is they are dangerous together. You disagreeing with this on principle of not liking the magazine, and saying “I do it & I am fine” is the equivalent to saying “Mix ammonia & bleach together… I know it’s safe, because I did it & I still alive”…

Unless you can provide factual/scientifically supported data to support your claim, then my response stands with documented support and needs to be the one acknowledged by the original poster. Also, unless you can prove otherwise, I believe NPF should remove your reckless post, as it is an endangerment to the community as a whole.

[cybermania]

I never said they were dangerous independently, what I said is they are dangerous together. You disagreeing with this on principle of not liking the magazine, and saying “I do it & I am fine” is the equivalent to saying “Mix ammonia & bleach together… I know it’s safe, because I did it & I still alive”…
Where did I say to take them together or say that I, personally, take them together? I NEVER said to mix them. You're putting words in my mouth about "mixing." If you reread my post, with comprehension this time, you'll see that I only mentioned flaxseed oil by saying that it contains alpha linolenic acid and not gamma linolenic acid. I don't think flaxseed oil is all that valuable for people with P. Both contain omega 3's, but they are different. Fish oil contains eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). Fish oil is mentioned as treatment on this site http://www.psoriasis.org/treatment/psoriasis/diet/supplements.php.
It would be an overkill on omega 3's to take them both. If you want to be the "post police" you need to read with accuracy. I said I'm taking primrose oil and fish oil with no problems, plus a lot of other supplements. If you want to be the police, show me the police report on supplement overdose.
GetOverIt - Thanks so much for the recipe. I'm going to give it a try!

[Allie]

Okay, I fully admit when I am at work I don't always read all the posts & I jumped to conclusions based on your negative post towards RD and my rapid read of the prior posts.... For that I am truly sorry.

So my next question has to be... Then what was the point of your post??? Other than the obvious attempt at discrediting mine...which led to my conclusion....

[cybermania]

Okay, I fully admit when I am at work I don't always read all the posts & I jumped to conclusions based on your negative post towards RD and my rapid read of the prior posts.... For that I am truly sorry.

So my next question has to be... Then what was the point of your post??? Other than the obvious attempt at discrediting mine...which led to my conclusion....

It wasn't to discredit you, it was just to show that saying "No" without a detailed explanation doesn't help anyone. Does the book explain why it isn't effective to take the two together or does it just say "anti-coagulants and can cause you to hemorrhage." Does the book give a case history of a person hemorrhaging from taking the two together? I'm willing to bet it doesn't. The book says that to legally cover their ass because both are anti-coagulants and it doesn't want to be held liable. Here's more info on the differences between the two. http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-15.htm
More on Omega-3

The two active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil are EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). EPA is considered to be the ingredient with the therapeutic effect, so it is important to buy omega-3 that contains more EPA than DHA. A pilot study of EPA on depressed patients produced a beneficial effect while in another study DHA proved a total dud.

Fish oil has been highly touted as a prevention for heart disease and a host of other ills, so there was a ready-made supply on the market long before Dr Stoll's study.

At a seminar at the May 2004 American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting, Jerry Cott PhD, an FDA researcher, had this to say about omega-3.

Omega-3, he said, is a fatty acid that appears to work much like a calcium channel blocker. Not uncoincidentally, he related, Joseph Hibbeln MD of the NIH, who has led the way in omega-3 research, had been working on a calcium channel blocker study. Omega-3 competes with its sister fatty acid, omega-6, for the same enzyme chain. From there, omega-3 and omega-6 are metabolized, then stored as highly unsaturated fatty acid in tissue phospholipids.. The ideal ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is one to one, but with modern diets favoring omega-6 at 20 to one it’s fairly obvious which fatty acid is going to win the battle of the enzyme chain.

Less may also be more. Large doses may result in oxidative stress as omega-3 is being metabolized.. This may explain why some studies using EPA (see above) failed at higher doses. Accordingly, Dr Cott recommends omega-3 be taken with vitamins C and E.

Dr Stoll also recommends taking vitamins C and E with omega-3 (1.5 to 3.5 grams of omega-3 a day, taken with food). He does not suggest using cod liver oil, as high amounts can lead to hypervitaminosis A. In buying fish oil, make sure you receive a 90 percent concentration (in the past only 30 percent was available.) Be sure it contains more EPA than DHA, and that it has no heavy metal concentrations.

Dr Stoll recommends fish oil capsules over a diet of cold water fish such as salmon or tuna, citing toxic ingredients as a reason for not going with fish. Even one can of tuna a week is too much, he asserts. Andrew Weil MD - the natural health guru recommends eating fish twice or three times a week, and cautions against capsules that may contain toxic contaminants. Both doctors agree that any fish you eat should be ocean fish rather than farm-raised fish. This is because omega-3 travels up the food chain from algae, while farm-raised fished are fed grains, which do not contain omega-3.

Dr Stoll also favors fish oil over flaxseed oil, as fish oil is more proven at this point. Dr Weil says it's okay to go with flaxseed oil, which will make vegetarians happy.
Flax

An article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune waxes eloquent on the benefits of flax, which is rich in omega-3. The Emperor Charlemagne was such a great fan of the grain that he required his subjects to eat it. Ground flax seed can be sprinkled on yogurt and a dash of flax oil can fortify a smoothie. According to the article, flax seed contains just one type of omega-3, so it is advisable to keep eating fish. Most capsules contain 1,000 mgs of flax oil, although it is not yet clear how much flax the body needs. Flax seed is also a rich source in ligands (which may prevent some hormonally-related cancers) and fibers (the oil alone does not have ligands or fiber). If you buy flax seeds, be sure they are ground or that you grind them, as the body cannot digest the seed's outer hull.

The active ingredient in flax oil is alpha-linolenic acid, which is converted to EPA and DHA in the body.