Should Pagano Be Allowed to Advertise in Psoriasis ADVANCE

[BobO]

We now know that Pagano's "theory" of the Leaky Gut Syndrome as the root cause of Psoriasis has no basis in reality. It is misleading people into thinking that psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis is caused by "toxins" in our gut. It is particularly disturbing to think that new patients and especially young children and teenagers, who are in their formative years with this disease, are being so greatly misinformed. In effect, they are being led to believe that the reason they got their psoriasis in the first place is because "it's something that they ate".

I feel that advertising the Pagano books in Psoriasis ADVANCE is not in our best interests nor that of our families and loved ones. There is already too much misinformation about psoriasis out there with the general public; we all know the feeling of being approached by a family member with their latest theories about our disease. In Pagano's case, his "theory" is the "Misinformation of the Century".

We all love the NPF and I would give them every last penny I have to help keep them financially viable. I am sure that if the advertising manager discontinued Pagano's ads, another advertiser having more relevance to psoriasis would quickly step in to fill the monetary void. Remember that "Ads are accepted for publication if they are relevant to people with psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis and if they meet certain standards". Even an ad for a simple moisturizer would have more relevance to psoriasis, and even psoriatic arthritis, than Pagano's Medieval "theories".

Also, last but not least, don't forget one of our primary Missions: "Through education and advocacy, we promote awareness and understanding..." Do we want to continue to promote Pagano's misinformation, or do we want to move forward with our thinking and ultimately find a cure and put an end to this disease?

VOTE:

YES - Pagano SHOULD be allowed to advertise in Psoriasis ADVANCE.
NO - Pagano SHOULD NOT be allowed to advertise in Psoriasis ADVANCE.

[jrs]

knowing how everyones p is so different in responding to treatments why be so negative to any type of treatment. i dont get that. diet does help alot of people fight this desease. and if it only helped one person that would be enough.

[MBowden]

I feel that this man should NOT be anywhere near this site. He's a chiropractor, and still adheres to the "leaky gut syndrome" theory. Come on folks, how outdated is this!!????? I don't wish to bash anyone, but I can't tolerate ignorance. Diet may help some, but most won't see a big difference for long!!

Marlene

[cjg]

Even if people have some success with his regimen, who can stay on rabbit food for months at a time? Plus the colonics (yikes!) and strange teas. I admire anyone who can do that, but even if it cleared me, at some point I'd have to go back to eating normal food. Women need calcium and protein, plus I'd have to eat around the clock to full satisfied. I wish I had the discipline to really give it a try, but there are several other things I'd like to try first. I'll hope that they make some headway in biologics and/or gene therapy since I tend to agree with the autoimmune idea rather than the leaky-gut/diet hypothesis anyhow.

[chaimFL]

If he would just admit that the leaky gut theory is outdated and disproven the book wouldn't be so bad. There's nothing wrong with the diet, but there is something wrong when he continues to publish it under the same premise...that P is caused by toxins. A little editing and I would have no problems...some people just hate to admit defeat.

[TLd317]

I have followed Dr. Paganos diet with great luck myself.
I'm not really concerned with theories & such.
I am just a sufferer who will try anything in hopes of clearing my skin.

I guess some things only work for some people...I believe it is all trial & error.

Best of Luck.

[chaimFL]

I guess the problem is that leaky gut syndrome doesn't even really exist. It's not a medically recognized condition. You can go to any valid health web page and find zero results....it's one of those "something has to be wrong so let's call it this" conditions. And it has absolutely nothing to do with autoimmune diseases.

[GitOverIt]

explain a little more about how leaky gut is alive and well!!! or at least still existing according to med data

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10980980&dopt=Abstract&holding=f1000

[chaimFL]

Of course all that says is that the "leaky gut" aspect is a symptom of crohn's disease. There is no mention that "leaky gut" is a disease on it's own. Nor is there any correlation to it and P.

[GitOverIt]

from Chaim
"I guess the problem is that leaky gut syndrome doesn't even really exist. It's not a medically recognized condition. You can go to any valid health web page and find zero results....it's one of those "something has to be wrong so let's call it this" conditions. And it has absolutely nothing to do with autoimmune diseases."



leaky gut exists and IS found in med data............:D


http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/LEAKGUT4.HTM

[chaimFL]

Actually the web page you posted isn't really a valid medical authority.......

Leaky gut does not exist in the medical world...there is a question about intestinal permeability, but even that is speculative. In either case there is no link between "leaky gut" and P in any way shape or form. It realy isn't relavant on this web page.

[makeitgoaway]

Any product which says that they have a cure for psoriasis should be banned until there really is a cure.

Can his regiment help people? I don't think that is the question? Different things work for different people.

Does he have a cure, definately not.

If he would take the cure part out of the equasion, I would have no problem with his right to advertise here.

[jrs]

hi steve nice to hear from you. how you doing ?
a cure or somthing that eases the symptoms isnt that all we have is things that eases the symptoms at this point. are all the old family tonics that was givin to us when we were younger usless. i dont think so they knew somthing worked but had no clue how are why. they know that prisoners that were restricted to a low fat diet cleared during the war . who knows why. if somthing works it works.they practice medicine cause they havnt prefected it.

[chaimFL]

Actually there are drugs out there that do more than just ease or mask the symptoms. The biologics stop the actual cause of P by blocking T cells or TNF receptors. The therapy has to be continued but the root cause of P is being attacked, not just the physical appearance.

[makeitgoaway]

My point is that there is no Cure. Yes there are things that will ease the symptoms. When I first got P I would have wasted my money on anything that said Cure becuse I did not know any better. I would hate for anyone else to do the same. Call it a treatment or anything else, not a Cure!

[Foxy]

Originally posted by makeitgoaway
My point is that there is no Cure. Yes there are things that will ease the symptoms. When I first got P I would have wasted my money on anything that said Cure becuse I did not know any better. I would hate for anyone else to do the same. Call it a treatment or anything else, not a Cure!

I did the same to, when someone said this will cure it I jumped for it. I thought that might be the product that worked and what if I didn't try it.

I am now only trying to find the right moisturiser.

Teri.

[rosee_posey]

On the one hand, Psoriasis Advance should be a source of reliable information - and letting quacks have ad space in it give the publication and the NPF a bad rap "that they'll take money from everybody".

On the other hand, does the NPF have the right to deny an opportunity, even for one person, to learn about a treatment that may work for them?

In my opinion, that whole leaky gut thing and the possibility of having NPF'ers even considering colonics to clean it out give me the heebie-jeebies. It wouldn't bug me if someone wanted to practice Pagano's diet, but hey - Just say NO to the hose up the hiney!! OK?

Here's that link on colonic irrigation that I have been posting every year when this topic comes up.

http://www.ncahf.org/pp/colonic.html

[Waco]

Firstly, i am following paganos diet (without colonics!!) and i have noticed an improvement, so have others!

ChaimFL 'The biologics stop the actual cause of P by blocking T cells or TNF receptors' - that really doesnt seem to be the root cause, surely the root cause would involve the reason why the T cells need to be blocked, why T cells arnt doing thing right


BTW 'valid medical authority' can be wrong, or can not know the full truth, or have not yet discovered stuff, or even be bias. Just take a look at history, it is just rammed full of people being really dogmatic about stuff, but them eventually having to admit they were wrong. Leading authorities at one point thought the world was flat

[chaimFL]

Waco, my statement about T cells and TNF receptors remains and is correct. We are dealing with our genetic makeup so how much more to the root can it be?? There is nothing more specific than our genetic makeup......!

My point is and has always been that diet helps some people (whether Mr. Pagano or not), but Mr. Pagano uses a theory that is 100% absolutely untrue (leaky gut theory) to get people to try his diet and that is a very slimy thing to do.

[MBowden]

This is my final thought on Pagano. If his theory was correct, why doesn't everyone in the U.S. have psoriasis??? There are more people in the U.S. that live on fast food and junk than anywhere else in the world (my opinion), so according to pagano, they should ALL have psoriasis!!!! Why doesn't anyone with intestinal or colon problems have p??? Those with ulcers?????? See my point????? I'll agree that there is such an illness called "leaky gut syndrome" but as for it being the cause of psoriasis? NO WAY!!


Marlene

[cjg]

From my admittedly limited knowledge of the body, it would seem to me that if our guts were leaky, that our bodies would be so overrun with bacteria and/or other ghoulies in there that we'd die of some form of toxicity (infections, septicemia, peritonitis, etc.)

[PJ Leary]

Hi BobO,

I support your well presented position on Mr. Pagano's ads in the Advance. I have no intention of replying to the ridiculous arguements to the contrary.

[Waco]

Originally posted by MBowden
This is my final thought on Pagano. If his theory was correct, why doesn't everyone in the U.S. have psoriasis??? There are more people in the U.S. that live on fast food and junk than anywhere else in the world (my opinion), so according to pagano, they should ALL have psoriasis!!!! Why doesn't anyone with intestinal or colon problems have p??? Those with ulcers?????? See my point????? I'll agree that there is such an illness called "leaky gut syndrome" but as for it being the cause of psoriasis? NO WAY!!


Marlene

Pagano said that there must be an underlieing factor...!

[BobO]

On the other hand, does the NPF have the right to deny an opportunity, even for one person, to learn about a treatment that may work for them?
My Dear Friend Rosalie, et al,

The NPF's Psoriasis ADVANCE is the gold standard of lay publications for the psoriasis community. Letting PagaNO advertise in the Psoriasis ADVANCE is tantamount to accepting ads for magnets and copper bracelets and pyramid power and electric fields for the treatment of psoriasis. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

I feel that making PagaNO a relic of deep ancient history, an antiquity like the leprosy connection, would be one of the best things we ever did for ourselves. His fanciful theories have been a mill-stone around our collective necks for the last decade. It is now 2004 and enough is enough with his nonsense. PagaNO is a true living anachronism and he fails to amuse anymore.

We need to set the bar high and keep it high; high enough so that corpses like PagaNO can't jump over it.

[Waco]

Some peoples p has been cleared by following paganos diet, mine is starting to clear up using paganos diet, if i hadnt or they hadnt heard of pagano we would still have p just as bad as ever. it is almost irrelevant weither pagano is compleatly correct or wrong in places, a lot of what he says has helped a fair few people. Has pagano personally offended you in some way?

[rosy3939]

I don't think that Pagango should be allow to advertive in the the psoriasas advance. Neither should, Enbrel, Amivete, Rapthiva or any other commerical enity advertive. When you start selling advetising space you are already prostituting the product and its values.

I think it should be free of all advertisments of any kind.

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by BobO
We now know that Pagano's "theory" of the Leaky Gut Syndrome as the root cause of Psoriasis has no basis in reality. It is misleading people into thinking that psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis is caused by "toxins" in our gut. It is particularly disturbing to think that new patients and especially young children and teenagers, who are in their formative years with this disease, are being so greatly misinformed. In effect, they are being led to believe that the reason they got their psoriasis in the first place is because "it's something that they ate".

I feel that advertising the Pagano books in Psoriasis ADVANCE is not in our best interests nor that of our families and loved ones. There is already too much misinformation about psoriasis out there with the general public; we all know the feeling of being approached by a family member with their latest theories about our disease. In Pagano's case, his "theory" is the "Misinformation of the Century".

We all love the NPF and I would give them every last penny I have to help keep them financially viable. I am sure that if the advertising manager discontinued Pagano's ads, another advertiser having more relevance to psoriasis would quickly step in to fill the monetary void. Remember that "Ads are accepted for publication if they are relevant to people with psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis and if they meet certain standards". Even an ad for a simple moisturizer would have more relevance to psoriasis, and even psoriatic arthritis, than Pagano's Medieval "theories".

Also, last but not least, don't forget one of our primary Missions: "Through education and advocacy, we promote awareness and understanding..." Do we want to continue to promote Pagano's misinformation, or do we want to move forward with our thinking and ultimately find a cure and put an end to this disease?

VOTE:

YES - Pagano SHOULD be allowed to advertise in Psoriasis ADVANCE.
NO - Pagano SHOULD NOT be allowed to advertise in Psoriasis ADVANCE. You Idiot............

We all know there is NO CURE for the common cold let alone Psoriasis & your Mumbo Jumbo gaff.

S

[chaimFL]

Originally posted by Spiderman
You Idiot............

We all know there is NO CURE for the common cold let alone Psoriasis & your Mumbo Jumbo gaff.

S



Why are you here??

[Raynard_the_Fox]

Originally posted by Spiderman
You Idiot............

We all know there is NO CURE for the common cold let alone Psoriasis & your Mumbo Jumbo gaff.

S
:rolleyes:

This statement, coming from you, caused me to blow out my irony regulator. You will receive a bill for replacing it.

-Fox

[MBowden]

Spiderman, you seriously need an attitude adjustment! What's crawled up your ____ today?????

[PJ Leary]

Hello all,

I was talking with my Dad about this issue, and he made a valid point I would like to share. He is a 50+ year veteran of severe p, and a very smart man.

He wants to remind everyone that folks with severe p will experience total and complete remission if they are willing to starve themselves. Remission is also likely in the event one contracts a fatal disease.

He goes further to say that in his considerable personal experience, as well as his observations of others over the years, any major change in diet is likely to create a change in severity of psoriasis disease, temporarily.

We both want to support anything that may work to heal another of this terrible affliction. However, we share a concern that desperate individuals may jeapordize their long term health for a short term temporary benefit. We both understand that desperation very well from first hand experience.

Regards.

PJ Leary

[MBowden]

Very well said PJ!!! Thank you!!!

Marlene

[jrs]

yes that was very well said.and im sure we all share your feeling on that subject . but i havnt seen anthing anywere that promoted starvation what has been said was a healty lifestyle and eating correctly to control p. and for some reason i cant seem to grasp that seems to be a slap in the face for some people on here. when somone here suggestes heathy eating that wont have any long term side effects and does work some people here get offeneded but when someone says there going on a new med .that hasnt been out any length of time and has no history of long term side effects everyone chears them on. we all feel the desperation and i understand your concern but the concern for long term health vs short term relief for the meds available are a lot worse then eating veggies.

ps sorry for the pisspoor wrighting skills i hope i got my thoughts across anyway. and by no means want to offend anyone . there seems to be two different opionions on the subject and both should be heard.

[khorath]

Originally posted by PJ Leary
He wants to remind everyone that folks with severe p will experience total and complete remission if they are willing to starve themselves.

For how long? I did a complete fast (water only) last fall for 6 days. I saw no change in my P at all.

When you say starve, do you mean no food at all, or do you mean just deprive yourself of the foods and/or quantities you normally like? Just curious.

I have to admit, at times I have seen some improvements when I change my diet. At other times, nothing at all.

I do not have a problem with people promoting a certain diet or treatment, as long as they do not state it is a cure or guarantee results. Of course, if they have the proper clinical trials to back their claims, that is another story.

[GitOverIt]

and I wonder how many on here have read "HEALING PSORIASIS the natural alternative"

I was reading through it just now ....and for the life of me can't

figure out how eliminating certain foods (saturated fats, the

nightshades, junk foods, fried foods, sugary foods, alcohol) can

be a health hazard...he specifically lists the foods to avoid and

the foods to eat....such as veggies, fruits, juices, grains, meats

inc. poultry and fish, dairy, butter, oils, and teas and coffee.

HAVE ANY OF YOU EVEN READ THE BOOK PRIOR TO JUDGING?

maybe we should have a discussion on the merits of Enbrel or any of the other toxic drugs?

Its a 2 way street folks....and we each have the God-given right to choose.

[Raynard_the_Fox]

Originally posted by GitOverIt
and I wonder how many on here have read "HEALING PSORIASIS the natural alternative"

I was reading through it just now ....and for the life of me can't

figure out how eliminating certain foods (saturated fats, the

nightshades, junk foods, fried foods, sugary foods, alcohol) can

be a health hazard...he specifically lists the foods to avoid and

the foods to eat....such as veggies, fruits, juices, grains, meats

inc. poultry and fish, dairy, butter, oils, and teas and coffee.

HAVE ANY OF YOU EVEN READ THE BOOK PRIOR TO JUDGING?

maybe we should have a discussion on the merits of Enbrel or any of the other toxic drugs?

Its a 2 way street folks....and we each have the God-given right to choose.

This is not a general health board it's a Psoriasis board. I mean riding a bike 5 miles a week is good for your health and there's nothing wrong with that but I don’t see how that helps your P any. I have not seen anyone here say that his diet is not healthy for you and if they did I apoligize because I missed it. But you are right everyone has a right to choose so it should be allowed to be discussed. But just like this or any other drug that comes along if someone claims its a "cure all" or cause its going to be questioned. and the same goes for genetics I am not completely sold on that being the cuase only becuse I have not been able to see the accual research on it. only that they have researched it and its looking that way but until I can find the research data they used I would not call that the cause either. because it is very easy to get data to say what you want it to say so with out looking that the data and methods used to test it myself I will not trust it completly.

And as far as Enbrel or other drugs go I did not count them but there are plenty of threads about them on the first page so they are being discussed like everything else. And for the record there are drugs out there that are used for treating P that I wont touch due to side effects or I just don’t feel comfortable using them from what I have learned or heard about them.

And for the record here's my personal score card on Enbrel vs. the good Dr. in terms of clearing P and relieving PA.

Enbrel 7....... The Good Dr. 0 (that right not even on this board have I heard someone say they cleared 100% using Diet. and I could add 3 more to Enbrel but they did not completely clear so I didn’t.)

-Fox

[chaimFL]

http://www.psorsite.com/docs/pagano_website.html

ENOUGH SAID!

[GitOverIt]

my point of reference is certainly not that site......

ENOUGH SAID!

[jrs]

fox i see your point but i stayed clear for 3 years using a diet and no telling how many others here also. alot or afraid to talk freely but i have to also say i stayed depressed too it altered my lifestyle so drastically i was misurable . rasin hell cooking drinking or three of my favorite things the forth i wont mention lol . and i dont like having to take sides here i know enbrel is a wonderful drug and i pray its the answer for many of us. but we dont know whats its gonna do to us later. the reason i speak up on the diet thing is suspose there is someone out there trying to make up there mind what to do reading all these threads. and suspose its someone that can handle the restraints of the diet and they can get any measure of relief from it . i want them to know there is people that diet does help. regardless weither im liked or catch hell disagreeing with the majority. and as for as nitpicking about saying its a cure who cares if thers someone that can benifit from it they can say the debil made um do it .

[rollypolly]

I don't post here often, but I certainly read everything that is posted and have done so for a couple of years.

http://www.psorsite.com is one of the bibles for psoriatics and anyone who discounts it as a valid source is of there rocker!

All the reading I've done on this site the clear majority of the links posted by gitoverit are sites set up by marketers who pay top dollar to have doctors sound all scientific to sell there product (I work for one of those marketing firms so I know exactly what I'm talking about).

I read the review Dave gave of Pagano's book and he made extremely valid points that if you took the time to read you would see makes total sense and truthfully someone should write all those point down, email Mr. Pagano and ask him to rectify the discrepencies.

[chaimFL]

I guess he's too credible!

[khorath]

This is obviously a passionate topic visited many times...

I think the key here is the statement that the NPF uses for one of its publications:

"It Works For Me"

No matter what treatment we are talking about:

If it works for you...GREAT! Tell us about it. Give us details. Give us facts (preferably scientific) But, please do not call it a cure. That is misleading because there is no known cure....yet.

If it doesn't work for you...GREAT! Tell us about it. Give us details. Give us facts (preferably scientific). But, please do not knock those who are having success with it.

None of us knows everything about this disease. We all have to make our own decisions on what treatments we want to use. That's why I like this board. I have learned a lot and can choose which treatments I want to try to see what works best for me. Some things I had never heard before visiting here.

Personally, I'm now trying the biologics:

Amevive - No good for me. But, I won't knock anyone who wants to try it because it just might work for them.

Raptiva - Starting to work for me. Does that mean it is the drug of choice for everyone? Nope.

Am I gambling with my future health? Perhaps, but that is my decision to make.

I've tried the diet (to one extent or another) without much success. But, if you do, great! Good luck and let us know how you continue to do.

;)

[Raynard_the_Fox]

See I did not know that JRS (about you clearing using Diet thanks for sharing). And I also agree with you Diet should be aloud to be disscussed here without fear of a mob with pitch forks and tourchs coming after you. however I will say this I have had P for little over a year now and so when I started looking into this condition I now have. And I saw a lot of things like that diet that threw out words like "CURE" and "CAUSE". well at first I was like yeah why would I take drugs when I can change my diet and that will "CURE IT" but when I looked into it further I found it was not the cure all it claimed it was. again not to say that it does not work but when trying to reseach all your options I find it irresponsable to use those Catch words when discribing a treatment. I would have the same problem if any of the biologics attached that claim to them as well. So in the end I am trying to do the same thing protect that new preson who was searching like I was. So as long as you can be civil and I dont know why we cant we are all adults here ( most of us anyway :) ) Anyones point of view should be allowed but it should also have to stand against some questioning. again the person that posted it should not be attacked* but the merits of the claims of the treatment should be open to some questioning.

If someone claimed they cleared themselves dancing after midnight with a dead chicken in hand it's fine with me as long as you can back it up with some data. (like what kind of chicken :D :p )

-Fox

*there are those here who have proved that they can not be civil at all. When I come upon these posts I will reply in kind.

[jrs]

thank you fox that was nicley put but everything you say is from the heart and ment well .
but thats not to say it all is ment that way by others when i read a stament like . i injoy watching people beat them selfs up and suffer trying to stay on diets .theres only one way to read that and its mean and sadistic. any one here gets any joy in any of our pain has a bigggggg problem.
and do you thing people reading statments like that is gonna voice there oponion or say if there having any success. i dont want to (take sides ) there are benifits on both sides of this coin.
but reading some of the smug mean statments said here frys my dairy-air. it took me 9 long hard month to clear on that diet how many here oposing it gave it that kinda try?
ps fox your a neat guy and i love your wrighting style. you should try to publish some of your stuff.

[GitOverIt]

I don't like to be picked on and certainly don't like pitch forks:D
but "It works for me" is a great site...I wouldn't follow everyones ideas but they certainly have the right to post them and use them!

just like we have here..............

I think maybe one of the mistakes, going back a bit on this thread, was the meaning of certain words.

everyone was getting offended by the word CURE.

the book is called "HEALING" PSORIASIS.

HEALING:...the natural process by which the body repairs itself! to cause undesirable conditions to be overcome.

CURING" a medical or therapy that cures disease ...to restore to health.

ok ok now lets not get into that one again...just wanted to make a small point for a better understanding ................

there are viewers out there in the nether regions that I believe are too put off on responding because of the negative (say nasty)responses that are constantly being posted by some...

we can give our personal opinion surely without getting abusive? can we not?

[makeitgoaway]

Originally posted by Raynard_the_Fox
See I did not know that JRS (about you clearing using Diet thanks for sharing). And I also agree with you Diet should be aloud to be disscussed here without fear of a mob with pitch forks and tourchs coming after you. however I will say this I have had P for little over a year now and so when I started looking into this condition I now have. And I saw a lot of things like that diet that threw out words like "CURE" and "CAUSE". well at first I was like yeah why would I take drugs when I can change my diet and that will "CURE IT" but when I looked into it further I found it was not the cure all it claimed it was. again not to say that it does not work but when trying to reseach all your options I find it irresponsable to use those Catch words when discribing a treatment. I would have the same problem if any of the biologics attached that claim to them as well. So in the end I am trying to do the same thing protect that new preson who was searching like I was. So as long as you can be civil and I dont know why we cant we are all adults here ( most of us anyway :) ) Anyones point of view should be allowed but it should also have to stand against some questioning. again the person that posted it should not be attacked* but the merits of the claims of the treatment should be open to some questioning.

If someone claimed they cleared themselves dancing after midnight with a dead chicken in hand it's fine with me as long as you can back it up with some data. (like what kind of chicken :D :p )

-Fox

*there are those here who have proved that they can not be civil at all. When I come upon these posts I will reply in kind.

You hit the nail right on the head!

so when I started looking into this condition I now have. And I saw a lot of things like that diet that threw out words like "CURE" and "CAUSE". well at first I was like yeah why would I take drugs when I can change my diet and that will "CURE IT" but when I looked into it further I found it was not the cure all it claimed it was. again not to say that it does not work but when trying to reseach all your options I find it irresponsable to use those Catch words when discribing a treatment. I would have the same problem if any of the biologics attached that claim to them as well. So in the end I am trying to do the same thing protect that new preson who was searching like I was.

[makeitgoaway]

maybe we should have a discussion on the merits of Enbrel or any of the other toxic drugs?

You have brought this up on more than one occasion as part of your argument. I don't really understand what it has to do with defending Pagano.

But anyway, tell us, what your beef is with the merits of Enbrel and the other "toxic" drugs. I for one would like to know.

[Kimbercat]

gotta get my 2 cents in, as usual...:rolleyes:

I think Fox said it best: WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO OUR OWN OPINIONS

Those that find the diet or natural agents help them, WONDERFUL!!

Those that like the "toxic drugs", and find those work for them after reviewing risks vs benefits, WONDERFUL!!

We don't have to agree, but neither should we attack or criticize This is a place to learn and share ideas.

PEACE!!!!...... please???? :(

Peace????:confused:

That means I'll have to buy tickets to an actual event?

I'm so sorry if this offends anyone, it's meant to be light hearted. But I for one rush to this thread for the entertainment value.

Now everyone kiss and make up, or you will go in "time out".

XOXOXOX

[GitOverIt]

last week,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:D

[makeitgoaway]

We don't have to agree, but neither should we attack or criticize

It's funny how some people attack and criticize and then remove their posts when there is some debate. They want to be able to express their views and claim that they get jumped on. If they are aloud to express their views, aren't other people aloud to express theirs???

[beladonna]

I did that once...deleted my post, after I realized how petty and negative I sounded. I have been humbled ever since.

:rolleyes:

[makeitgoaway]

Back to the original point:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1222action22.html

[jrs]

case in point here's a new guy telling everyone what works for him. sharing his lifes experiences. just so happens diet works for him and what welcome does this new guy get . the words pagano and spam pops up. what kinda greeting would he have gotten if he said oh i just got on some new drug. true people should be able to discuess there point of view just seems when certian thing come up there immediatley attacked are shunned.

[makeitgoaway]

Originally posted by jrs
case in point here's a new guy telling everyone what works for him. sharing his lifes experiences. just so happens diet works for him and what welcome does this new guy get . the words pagano and spam pops up. what kinda greeting would he have gotten if he said oh i just got on some new drug. true people should be able to discuess there point of view just seems when certian thing come up there immediatley attacked are shunned.

Jrs:

I think you are posting on the wrong thread????

If not, i'm not sure where you are coming from.

[jrs]

healthy discusions are no problem what i was trying to point out is by some there not point of views there attacks.you dont personally attack someone cuase you differ oponions. most dont here. but there are some here that does and it scares people off .

[afortie1]

I have been reading Pagano's book for my own personal knowledge. To read this book thinking from a "health" standpoint this book is completely legitimate. Pagano points out research for adding (i.e. olive oil) to the diet and research for excluding certain substances from the diet (such as alcohol). He gives personal stories and examples not only from his patients, but from other psoriasis researchers efforts. Nothing I have read has been a turn off or out there. I have had a lot of experience attending holistic health fairs, taking yoga classes, meditating regularly, and eating a vegan diet. Perhaps I am more accepting of his views because of my background. Who knows. I think his suggestions such as excercising regularly and eating a balanced diet seem very reasonable to me. Those are things everyone should be doing. What he does is outline some do's and don'ts to guide you along the way in your journey to a better health. I seriously think that if a human being actually tried this diet for a year and gave it a shot (psoriasis aside) he/she would feel better than his/her present state (unless this person currently takes good care of his/her health already). How many of us actually pay that much attention to our diet and excercise and make it something that is absolutely important to us no matter what? How many of us drink 6-8 glasses of water a day? How many of us smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, drink soda? It wouldn't hurt any of us to be more consious of our bodies. Consious of what goes into our bodies and what goes out. How does your body feel? What is it telling you at this present moment in time. My yoga instructor has said it is soo important to listen to your body. Are you listening to yours? With that said, do what works for you. What are you doing to give yourself health, longevity, and a good quality of life? Are you doing everything you possibly can? I want to live a long time. I also want to keep my P manageable (don't we all?). We all make decisions that are personal when it comes to our treatments. Overall a balanced diet can't hurt anyone really and we should all be more supportive of everyone coming on to these boards. Living with P is not easy and only another person living with P know's what it is like to live with this. Be gentle we need each other.

[chaimFL]

Here's the low down on why Pagano's leaky gut theory is quackery:

http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/gastro.html

[jrs]

leaches and maggots were concidered unbelivable medical practices . guess what there using them again. drs seem to change there minds like i change my undies. (saturday is comming)
this is just another drs opionion just as the opinion was of the last dr that had a different opinion. to leak or not to leak isnt the question . does his diet help people thats the question and from the testamonials on here its hard to say it dont. bam
ps chaimfs you cool keep up the good work xSx

[chaimFL]

My point is that whenever diet is mentioned it seems to have the name Pagano attached, but why? If diet helps there is no reason you would need his diet because he bases it on quackery. Instead people should do there own experimenting by eliminating various food types whether it be glutten, wheat, sugar, dairy, alcohol, caffine...etc and see what helps instead of jumping head first into one of the most restrictive diets in the world. Why would you want to eliminate "night shades", pork, and alcohol if you can get the same results by just eliminating alcohol. When experimenting with the diet factor, the purpose is to find what your particular trigger is.....so if it's tomatoes, then what good is it to eliminate coffee too??

Also we know that diet only helps some (as with all treatments) and Mr. Pagano writes as if his quackery will help everyone, but as I said in an earlier unrelated post, the clearest I have ever been was when I was in college and my diet consited of pizza, taco bell, cigarettes, bourbon, pot, cocaine, and tons of coffee...so should I know write a book explaining how you can be 100% clear from that regimine?? Heck the healthier I became and more I exercised the worse my P got for some strange reason, but I realize that I am part of a big minority.

[jrs]

wehwwwwwwwww im gonna call ya mr. chaim the animal. lol
i understand your point there buttttttttt the problem with that is alot of times it takes so long to determine what helps and dont you would be as old as mathusal with a beard down to your hoowie hoowie befor you knew all the triggers i was a saint for 9 months not eating off that diet at all befor i did any good at all.
and i do understand all the controversy about the good dr. and i also know were disagreeing but thinking the same thing.diets work for alot of people but not all. i dont want anyone thinking about going on this diet not to cause of somthing i said stupid and i wanna give anyone all the incouragment i can.

[jrs]

lightbulb so thats why my sister is still in school at 52.
i didnt think advanced basket weaving was that damn difficult.

[makeitgoaway]

Originally posted by afortie1
I have been reading Pagano's book for my own personal knowledge. To read this book thinking from a "health" standpoint this book is completely legitimate. Pagano points out research for adding (i.e. olive oil) to the diet and research for excluding certain substances from the diet (such as alcohol). He gives personal stories and examples not only from his patients, but from other psoriasis researchers efforts. Nothing I have read has been a turn off or out there. I have had a lot of experience attending holistic health fairs, taking yoga classes, meditating regularly, and eating a vegan diet. Perhaps I am more accepting of his views because of my background. Who knows. I think his suggestions such as excercising regularly and eating a balanced diet seem very reasonable to me. Those are things everyone should be doing. What he does is outline some do's and don'ts to guide you along the way in your journey to a better health. I seriously think that if a human being actually tried this diet for a year and gave it a shot (psoriasis aside) he/she would feel better than his/her present state (unless this person currently takes good care of his/her health already). How many of us actually pay that much attention to our diet and excercise and make it something that is absolutely important to us no matter what? How many of us drink 6-8 glasses of water a day? How many of us smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, drink soda? It wouldn't hurt any of us to be more consious of our bodies. Consious of what goes into our bodies and what goes out. How does your body feel? What is it telling you at this present moment in time. My yoga instructor has said it is soo important to listen to your body. Are you listening to yours? With that said, do what works for you. What are you doing to give yourself health, longevity, and a good quality of life? Are you doing everything you possibly can? I want to live a long time. I also want to keep my P manageable (don't we all?). We all make decisions that are personal when it comes to our treatments. Overall a balanced diet can't hurt anyone really and we should all be more supportive of everyone coming on to these boards. Living with P is not easy and only another person living with P know's what it is like to live with this. Be gentle we need each other.

If you believe strongly in Pagano, why this:

Originally posted by afortie1
She prescribed me Clobetosol propionate in ointment form Desonide 0.05% for my face and Dermasmooth for my scalp. Also I am to use the lightbox 3x a week for UVB therapy.

PS - This is not an attack, I am just curious.

[afortie1]

I never said i believe strongly in Pagano. I am not using his diet. I think it has faults as you all have pointed out. But, I think it points out some things people should take into consideration from a health standpoint, things to include and things not to include. I would never stick anything up my butt believe me! However I think a combination of eating healthy, excercise, and the therapies our doctors recommend is the best way to go if you want to live a long time. Any doctor (your dermatologist included) would say eating a balanced healthy diet and excercising is highly recommended for good health.

[rosy3939]

I SAID EARLIER AND I WILL REPEAT. THER SHOULD BE NO ADVERTISING AT ALL. THAT ELIMATES THE DEBATE AND LEAVES THE EDITORIAL BOARD FREE TO POST ONLY WHAT IS RELEVANT AND NOT HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT HURTING OR HELPING THEIR ADVERTISERS.

[chaimFL]

Except that the advertising dollars help support the NPF, so I suppose there is a plan to propose on how to make up the lost dollars?? If a question exists about a product being advertised then ask your doctor for advise. Of course my answer is still 'no' to Mr. Pagano's book, but that is for other reasons.

[BobO]

Hello Rosy,

When the Bulletin evolved into Psoriasis ADVANCE, the membership was surveyed to find out what we wanted out of our new member magazine. One of the questions that was asked was whether we wanted advertising to appear in Psoriasis ADVANCE. I personally answered this question with a resounding "yes!" because of the importance of the advertising revenue. I feel, as I am sure you do too, that the NPF is not beholden to their advertisers nor do they let their advertisers influence their editorial content. So this is a moot point to be sure.

On the other hand, letting Pagano advertise in our flagship publication is like allowing bloodletting by leeches to be advertised in the magazine by the American Liver Foundation. Relative to all the watershed research that the Psoriasis Foundation supports, this is not in accord with our Mission. A line has to be drawn somewhere on advertising.

I am sure that if the advertising manager let Pagano's advertising contract expire, another advertiser having actual relevance to psoriasis would quickly step in to fill the monetary void, and we would all be one big giant step ahead.

[JKNY]

Yes D.P. should be allowed to advertise in the Advance as long as the piece is boldly labeled as an advertisement. Anything in the magazine that is there because someone or some organization paid for it should be clearly labeled as such by the magazine. The magazine should not allow advertisements for products which have been reprimanded or sued by the FDA for making false claims!(e.g. skincap). Ideally there could be a page devoted to "alternate/ natural treatment options"

I do find it disconcerting to see any ads in the advance- it makes me a bit supicious about what biases may be being "advanced" by the sponsor. I wish there were no adds at all ,ony articles by experts testifying about treatments but I guess that's unrealistic in this money driven society especially for a non profit organization such as ours.


I am shocked by the shrill against the diet book. This board is full of stuff that would appear to be "unscientific". I personally don't believe the diet stuff but this disease is so different for everyone. One person is completely cleared by raptiva and the next guy has 100% flare from raptiva? One person says they try a diet and they clear and 99 other people say nothing happens. One person says they work on stress reduction and they clear up others say no change. Systemic drugs work for some and not for others. Most say the sun helps many say it doesn't.Last but not least the medical books say that psoriasis can disappear for years all by itself? ( I wish-has anyone really had THIS happen?)


In my OPINION ( lets forget the IMHO guys please) until there is a treatment that is 80% effective for all of us then we should be open to hear any and all options as long as they are labeled as adverisements with adverse reactions listed and no false curing percentages allowed.

[winter]

I am curious about the first page of this article. According to it, I have already entered and voted as #68. That is not correct. I do not recall voting on this issue and I certainly am not in favor of NPF advertising 'CURES' of any sort. We know that currently there is no cure for psoriasis. Certainly nothing topical or any diet is not a "CURE". The only cures that exist so far are the new biologics and that is only for as long as you take them. NPF shouold not be advertising "CURES" or is really all about the money?

[mehere]

Leaky GUT theory has been proven to be FALSE. Most GI DOCS would laugh in Paganos face. The gene associated with Crohn's disease are very close to the Psoriasis genes- there is a common defective pathway -- they are not even remotely related to the concept of LEAKY GUT. Guy should be turned into to the FDA and sued into bankruptcy.

[misales]

It's funny how some people attack and criticize and then remove their posts when there is some debate. They want to be able to express their views and claim that they get jumped on. If they are aloud to express their views, aren't other people aloud to express theirs???

I was wondering this myself the other day?

[rsjeffress]

The question is not whether Pagano's diet works or not, or whether leaky gut syndrome is real or not. The point is that you are BORN with genes that cause P, and there is no such thing as ANY other external cause. There are TRIGGERS that bring it out, and there are as many different triggers as there are people. Psoriasis is a disease of the auto-immune system, not the skin. These are indisputable facts, and everything else is just specualtion and/or wishful thinking.

The question isn't about denying people information that might work for them and having the opportunity to try it, the question is should people be given information that is NOT TRUE. I could completely make up some crack-pot cure out of thin air; just because I am able to pay to have an ad run will not make it true, and would not make it worth trying just because someone read it. My point is that ANYBODY can pay to say ANYTHING, and we with P are so desperate to find that "cure" that we are willing to believe it, and there will always be people around to take advantage of that, if we are willing to let ourselves be taken advantage of. We have to use our common sense to weed these out from legitimate products. Just because someone has put it out there does NOT automatically mean that it's worth a try.

I understand that general publications that print ads can't be verifying every one of them. However, if this ad runs in an NPF publication, I think it's appalling that they would accept such an ad that is so blatantly untrue, thereby becoming an advocate for it by association, as so many trust that NPF would not give them access to misinformation. Evidently the almighty dollar that prompts some people to run scams is also the reason that such an ad would be accepted. But, this is the way of the world and we all know it, so the bottom line is that you can't put blind faith in ANYTHING, even the NPF, but instead are responsible for using your own common sense. Maybe those ads SHOULDN'T be there, but just because they are doesn't mean we have to be taken in by them. They wouldn't keep spending money on the ads if they were not working. If people stopped responding to those ads, they would disappear and fast.

It is each person's individual responsibilty to educate themselves of the FACTS, and not to be taken in by what sounds good or by what they WANT to believe, if it goes against what is KNOWN about the disease. You have to keep in mind that the people who run ads for false cures don't really care about you, they only want your money.

[Intan]

hi do you know Dr. Paganos web site ? if you know please tell me ? I've read his book 2 years ago but I need to find again about his theory, thank you n have a nice day.

I have followed Dr. Paganos diet with great luck myself.
I'm not really concerned with theories & such.
I am just a sufferer who will try anything in hopes of clearing my skin.

I guess some things only work for some people...I believe it is all trial & error.

Best of Luck.

[GitOverIt]

Intan....I do not know Dr. Pagano's web site...perhaps you could try google.com
However I did get clear from following Dr. Paganos formula that he lays out in his book "HEALING PSORIASIS The Natural Way" you can find the book at amazon.com

If you are interested in finding out how I got clear ...here is the thread

http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12172

There are quite a few people on the forum that are also following this regimen
and there are several other threads talking about slippery elm and what they have done for us.......It's a very exciting time....because we are getting clear
without having to take any of the phamaceuticals which compromises the immune system.
feel free to ask any questions you might have.

[Jor-EL]

mehere -

The following comes straight out of the MERCK MANUAL OF MEDICAL INFORMATION. Just a few parts of the section on Crohn's disease. I am not about to copy the entire, 2-page section ---

Crohn's Disease
" Crohn's disease is a chronic INFLAMMATION of the intestinal wall.
((there's that word, "inflammation" again - Jor-EL's coment))
The disease typically affects the full thickness of the INTESTINAL WALL. Most commonly, it occurs in the lowest portion of the small intestine (ileum) and the large intestine, but it can occur in any part of the digestive tract from the mouth to the anus and even around the skin of the anus."

"The cause of Crohn's disease is not know. Research has focused on three main possibilities: a dysfunction of the immune system, infection, and DIET."

To read the entire section on Crohn's disease, go the library if you don't have a copy. There is also an online site for the Merck Manual. Go here. They have a Table of Contents and the site is searchable.
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/home.jsp

The relationship between Crohn's disease and Psoriasis is close. I actually had a symptom of Crohn's just prior to getting Psoriasis (anal fissure - EXTREMELY painful !!!). But that doesn't address the question, "Why did the person get Crohn's or Psoriasis in the first place?" I also have to ask, mehere - how can you be so certain that neither one is brought on by poorly digested food-stuff, like protein, crossing an inflammed (and most likely, permeable, since the intestine is obviously in a comprimised condition) intestinal wall into the bloodstream?

Regarding that, did you read the thread I started that addresses the importance of enzymes and what happens when we are deficient in them?
If not, please read it. It's short. Here's the link:
http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14291

Are you willing to believe the scientific backing behind these facts or are you still not convinced?

[LottieBay]

The qustion here is "Should Pagano be Allowed To advertise in Psoriasis Advance" magazine.

Why should he be prevented from advertising in the Advance? There are many tratments advertised in the Advance. All of them work for some people and don't for others. Just because some people don't agree with or believe in Pagano's methods doesn't mean he should be banned from advertising.
Margaret

[jgirl]

:p Except that the advertising dollars help support the NPF, so I suppose there is a plan to propose on how to make up the lost dollars?? If a question exists about a product being advertised then ask your doctor for advise. Of course my answer is still 'no' to Mr. Pagano's book, but that is for other reasons.

Yes, and pharmaceutical companies help support doctors and give them bonuses and incentives like fancy dinners and vacations to write lots of prescriptions for their drugs. It's a business, like Wal-Mart or McDonalds or any other corpration in this country...Have you ever wondered, why when you go into a doctor's office, so often they are EXTREMELY quick to write a prescription? I can't remember a time in my life, where I left a doctor's office and did not get written a prescription...whether I needed or wanted one or not (most of the time I never filled them and I am plenty healthy now...mild p and fatigue and muscle aches are the worst of my concern...asthma is gone, p is almost gone as are the ear infections...all through non-western medicine means...very tolerable)... Of course, that is what they are trained to do...write prescriptions..that is what western medicine is, But that is just ONE school of thought, I think it is extrememly narrowminded to say that that is the ONLY "valid" school of thought...Of course other methods(yes, PAGANO too!) are businesses too, but to say anything other than western medical sources are not "valid" that is just an opinion from one cultural standpoint; I liken that saying there is only one right religion or race or good musician in this world or painter in this world. To me; THAT is nazi-like...to say only one "race" of medicine is valid or worthwhile... We live in a very, very diverse world, our medicine should be allowed to reflect it too!

So, I've said it before, "buying" a treatment program is just like buying anything else...it's very individual, you gotta weigh your risks versus rewards; quality versus cost, and then give it your best shot...WE as the p patients are the consumer; I think of this websites as Consumer Reports for the p patient at times :p But if the drug co's can advertise, Pagano or anyone else for that matter should be able to too! 41 people from this site voted postive results with Slippery Elm...which is basic Pagano 101...and I'm sure there are more who have not yet voted...doesn't that tell you something?It may NOT work for everyone, it IS strict and tough for most to follow, but since it IS helping so many of us, why should it be discounted? That would be like me saying, all steroid creams only made me worse so ban those co's from advertising in the NPF...It IS, or at least SHOULD be, a two way street...

Do what works for you. Personally, I ain't gonna let some silly p diagnosis stop me from doing NOTHING*. (In proper english, that would read; I'm not going to let psoriasis stop me from doing anything :p)

[misales]

Why not let anyone advertise in the advance. My doctors, including the first ones were treating my P for fungus. After a few months of this the derm finally figured it out. I never got an apology for the mis dx, just paid for a few rounds of sporinox, etc....

Lets see a lot of wasted money on western and other medicines....

wasted $$$$ on sporinox
wasted $$$$ on cyclo
wasted $$$$ on enbrel (a lot)
wasted $$$$ on many topicals, prescribed or otherwise.

money well spent to fix me......uvb and shrink, and I did spend a lot I guess, $600 plus for a home unit and at least $500 into copays and rx etc...

It certainly wasn't free.

Maybe we should start talking more about the cost of Enbrel.... You know I don't have any problem with the biologics but frickin $10K a year or more is rediculous. Some people don't even make that kind of money in a year if they work part time, etc... Wheres the money going, towards the cost of the med or to pay for the prime time adds on tv?

I have no problem with things that work but the price for this med is way out of control, they must be paying the hampsters too much $$$. Where is the hall of pshame when you need them.

Heres a question...how much would enbrel cost if the insurance companys decided not to cover the cost of this med? And just remember, if you think insurance is free it isn't. These people are out to make profit to and if you look at their facilitys etc they are doing a good job of it.

[rosy3939]

I said it before and I will say it again. THERE SHOULD BE NO ADVERTISING IN THE ADVANCE from anyone.

It should be our magazine free and clear of any commericalization. I do know that putting the magazine is expensive to print and distribute but I do believe that no one should have access to a very vunerable community where many not all can be swayed by any claim of merical cures.

Mitch

[nrasher]

I would guess that the number of people "helped" by pagano is roughly the same as number of people that have remission or reduction of symptoms for no obvious reason. If Pagano's diet does not produce results that are statistically better than chance then his diet is nonsense. It is significant that none of his supporters ever manage to produce any analyses of the efficacy of his regimen other than individual anecdotes.

Nick Rasher

"Love that dirty water"

[jgirl]

I would guess that the number of people "helped" by pharmaceuticals is roughly the same number that would have experienced remission or reduction of symptoms anyway...and we would be absolutely foolish to give credence to a study conducted by the drug companies themselves.

There WILL be studies on Slippery elm and dietary changes in the near future...mark my words..some are already in the works...obviously, there is not as much financial motivation in reporting good results with herbal teas that run $12 a month as there is with reporting good results at $1200 bucks a month, but I do NOT believe everyone in this country is motivated solely by money...just SOME CEO's.

I do agree with Mitch in the sense that I think it should be all or nothing. I'd be fine without the advertisements. But if we do have them I think it's only fair, for them to be diverse.

[ouchyk]

Jen,

" I would guess that the number of people "helped" by pharmaceuticals is roughly the same number that would have experienced remission anyway...and we would be absolutely foolish to give credence to a study conducted by the drug companies themselves "

Your comment regarding pharmaceuticals is not quite right. If your talking about biological drugs meant for moderate to severe P/PA. I'm thinking thats the case seeing that topicals don't cost $1200. a month.

Studies are done by more than the drug companies themselves.

Biologicals are not meant for mild P/PA. I don't know how many severe cases of Psoriasis remit without medical intervention. I do know that with PA current large scale studies have shown that 47% progress...and not many people go into spontaneous remission, if they do they were mild to begin with. Those 47% who are progressing need to be on a DMARD or Bio to stem the tide of destruction. No herbal remedies are known to stop this at this time.

Do pharmacutical companies promote thier drugs, sure they do, they are a business and they help people. I would say Pagnano does the same promoting his book, on a smaller scale. He's a business as much as the pharmaceutical companies are.

The biggest producer ( funding ) of studies is the NIH, they study pharmaceuticals all the time, and as you know diet, herbs etc, the NIH has thier own website just for herbs etc.

Time & reseach will tell if a $12 dollar a month herbal remedy works for some, but for now the $1200 a month biologicals do work for many.

I could care less who advertises in the Advance Magazine, as long as nothing it touted as a cure UNLESS of course we find one! ;)

If anyone has a problem with advertising or the companies who give funds to help run this site why not contact the NPF and let them know?

I find it amusing that this thread was brought back up after many months and questions asked to a poster ( mehere ) who no longer posts here lol :confused:

Karen :)

Oh oh Boston you're my home....

[misales]

A long time ago I mentioned that the NPF should advertise on this website. There are a lot of things that we buy and or services we use on a regular basis for psoriasis and there is not reason why the npf shouldn't be able to generate revenue from this site either through advertising space and or through a pay per click stream or even a per sale basis.

If I know of something I'm gonna buy anyway and can give someone that I like the credit I do. Anyway, it's all up to us what we can buy or afford as far as it comes to P treatment.

As far as this sites concerned, let people look and the NPF get funding for it, I think it's a good idea.

As far as Pagno goes, I think his diets a good thing I just think it's hard to give credit to as most of us, including myself, can't do it. It's like running a marathon, takes training dedication and a lot of time and effort. Only certain persons are going to succeed. I really have no desire to train for a marathon, I'm sure I could do it but we only have so much time in the day.

Another thing about a book form regimine is that you only pay for it once while many of our meds get paid for with a monthly revenue stream.

One thing that is interresting about my home uvb is that now I don't see the derm. I went from often appointments to zero. Being my derm is a specialist I don't think he gets a regular revenue from my HMO unless he sees or treats me. I'm certain he's lost revenue by putting me on this regimine.

[jgirl]

Jen,

" I would guess that the number of people "helped" by pharmaceuticals is roughly the same number that would have experienced remission anyway...and we would be absolutely foolish to give credence to a study conducted by the drug companies themselves "

Your comment regarding pharmaceuticals is not quite right. If your talking about biological drugs meant for moderate to severe P/PA. I'm thinking thats the case seeing that topicals don't cost $1200. a month.

Studies are done by more than the drug companies themselves.

Biologicals are not meant for mild P/PA. I don't know how many severe cases of Psoriasis remit without medical intervention. I do know that with PA current large scale studies have shown that 47% progress...and not many people go into spontaneous remission, if they do they were mild to begin with. Those 47% who are progressing need to be on a DMARD or Bio to stem the tide of destruction. No herbal remedies are known to stop this at this time.

Do pharmacutical companies promote thier drugs, sure they do, they are a business and they help people. I would say Pagnano does the same promoting his book, on a smaller scale. He's a business as much as the pharmaceutical companies are.

The biggest producer ( funding ) of studies is the NIH, they study pharmaceuticals all the time, and as you know diet, herbs etc, the NIH has thier own website just for herbs etc.

Time & reseach will tell if a $12 dollar a month herbal remedy works for some, but for now the $1200 a month biologicals do work for many.

I could care less who advertises in the Advance Magazine, as long as nothing it touted as a cure UNLESS of course we find one! ;)

If anyone has a problem with advertising or the companies who give funds to help run this site why not contact the NPF and let them know?

I find it amusing that this thread was brought back up after many months and questions asked to a poster ( mehere ) who no longer posts here lol :confused:

Karen :)

Oh oh Boston you're my home....



I didn't say people aren't being helped by bioligicals...yes, I think it's interesting this thread was brought back up too...I didn't do it...but now that it's here...I have NO problem if people want to take pharmaceuticals. NONE (unless, of course you are my best friend or something, then I'd fight much harder :p ) It is their life, and I am way too busy with other things than to try and control 45,000 people... My problem is that the very nature of this thread, starting with the first post, seeks to invalidate Pagano - he may not be for everyone, and I don't know that many with PA who have done it for six months, obviously those are much more advanced cases ad would take LONGER to reverse*, but all I know is this: I had p in the EXACT SAME SPOTS for 8 years - it NEVER moved...except when I did things Pagano recommends (raw foods diet is highly alkaliine) SO I will fight that this is "sponatneous" every step of the way! It was, and is HARD WORK but it works...spontateous my a**! That is a blind statement from someone who does not know me or my story, or Sally's or so many other's stories and OBVIOUSLY does not read our threads.

Also if you READ my post, you would see I already mentioned Pagano is a business...read it again carefully.

If people would stop poo-pooing herbs and diet here so much, maybe we could get a decent study going sooner! I bet if they paid as much as pharmaceutical co's pay those "scientists" to conduct their studies it would have been done yesterday...

I already know it works...I can't WAIT until we have the scientific data to prove it.

* I do believe it is possible that some people are past the point of not needing meds...at least at first...my heart so goes out to those of you with PA...it really does...but remember, it's under 30% that develop PA so I do think we should be able to discuss Pagano without being attacked...but the truth remains, I don't think anyone here with PA has been diligent enough with PAGANO (six months NO cheating) to know if it really works...

I think this discussions is like a boomerang ...
after some months of posts it returned to launch point.....
then after some months someone launch again the boomerang........
then after......

[Kimbercat]

This thread was brought back up by a new member seeking information on Pagano. Although I'm sure it was unintentional, it seems to only start the controversy on pro and con for this particular regime, and the subject of advertising.

That being said, why don't we all drop this particular discussion rather than re-visiting it for the eleventy millionth time. It serves absolutely no purpose. Rather, those of you familiar with the Pagano regime please provide information or a link to help this new member with the information they came here seeking. Let's help this person rather than show them controversy.

[Photochick66]

hey...this is probally really obvious and probally the answer is rite in front of me but wat is Pagano?? thanks.
x0x,
~Dee